It was sad to hear the stories of how they are being persecuted by the church. I may not agree with them, but I also do not agree with how the church has responded, with either violence or complete rejection. Where are they supposed to run and find help or love? If it is not in the church, then where?
Some of my questions that I am struggling with:
- Where do we, Christians, (or the Church) draw the line between pointing out sin and showing compassion or love?
- When should we give a rebuke, and when should we "love" the sinner?
- Side note: I am not sure how I feel about the "love the sinner" phrase, John Piper has an interesting point of view on this phrase. Where is that phrase in the Bible?
- John 8:7 "...'Whichever of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone...", How is this, if at all, to be applied to the Church? Why does the Pastor have the right to point out sin and rebuke, when he himself has sinned, or is sinning? Does he have the right to do such a thing? What about Matt. 18, when it talks about a brother sinning against you, and you have the obligation to point out his sin? How is this different than John 8:7? How do we apply both verses when one says we have no place to judge, and the other says we must point out and rebuke our brother or sister?
- How do those questions relate to today and the Church? Does the Church, consisting of members who have sinned, have the right to rebuke, or must the Church first remove the log in their own eye first, Matt. 7? Bottomline question, does the Church have the right to judge, and how must the Church handle the sin of those in the congregation?
Other than that, things are good, and remember, CHRIST HAS RISEN!!!!!
Well, you asked for my opinions, so:
ReplyDeleteWhile I think it is always, always appropriate to show love, I think oftentimes pointing out sin is the job of the Holy Spirit. I think it is our job to point out and explain sin to people who have never heard that what they do is wrong - like a murderous tribe in South America, for example, or a person raised in a home that encouraged dishonesty. But when a person has already heard that they are sinning, telling them again isn't going to accomplish anything. They've heard it before, and they have decided to believe otherwise. No amount of "logical" arguments will convince them - the only thing strong enough to work such a change in a hardened mind is the Holy Spirit. I see this as true in my own life as well. As far as offering a rebuke, as the scriptures encourage, I think this is only appropriate within a close relationship where you have the other person's trust and love.
So the exact words "love the sinner" are never in the Bible - that's inconsequential. The entirety of the Gospel testifies to this idea - "Love your neighbor as yourself" is considered the second greatest commandment, "Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you," Love "keeps no record of wrongs," "Follow the way of love," "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." I don't think it could be any clearer that of all Jesus asked of us, "the greatest of these is love."
I think it is our job and the church's job to proclaim the Gospel of Christ, making no omissions. I think it is our job to go over our own lives with a fine-toothed comb, and to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but I do not think it is ever our job to judge another person. Judgment is always and only in the hands of the one who knows our hearts better than we ourselves, never in the hands of us depraved sinners with logs in our eyes.
I think Skylar made a couple of key points up there.
ReplyDeleteI believe that we should always always always err on the side of love. Better to be way too loving and accepting (if that's even possible) than to be too judgmental. I know that I personally learn better when I'm being unconditionally loved than when someone is telling me how wrong I am or what a terrible sinner I am or that I'm not a good enough Christian. I also think that we only ought to be holding people accountable and calling them out on things when we are really close with them and they have invited us into that role in their lives. For me, if someone doesn't know me well and is passing judgment on my behavior (even if they are well-founded) I will turn them off because they don't know my heart or they aren't being loving in how they go about it. But there are a few people in my life, who I have asked to hold me accountable, that I take very seriously when they lovingly tell me, 'Hey, Carly, maybe you should think about this...'
I think it's our place to love. Always. And understand that we sin too and that all of us are messing up. It's like Dr. D said at the first Soul Force forum, we're all just trying to follow God the best we know how and none of us are getting it right. So maybe we should worry less about pointing out "the truth" or telling someone that they're wrong and focusing more on what we have in common and loving each other no matter what.
The key here is to understand what it means to "judge". I think there is a big difference between recognizing sin and judging someone. When Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", I think he was saying "Let he who is not worthy of condemnation condemn this woman". When we look at someone and the way they live their lives, it is natural that we see the sin. This is not wrong. In fact, it may mean that we are wise and have been given the ability to discern. The question is what do we do with this knowledge? Do we condemn this person or continue to love them just as fully as before?
ReplyDeleteRecognizing someone's sin and loving them is entirely possible. But condemning someone, judging them, and loving them at the same time is not possible. In fact, I think that if we truly love someone, we will recognize the sin in their lives because we are concerned for their relationship with Christ. If we truly love someone, we will rebuke them.
And a comment about "love the sinner, hate the sin": I don't like saying that we should love the "sinner" because that shows that in our minds we're thinking "I know that they sin but I'm going to love them anyway" which I suppose isn't so bad, but it seems that the mindset should be more of a "This person is beautiful because God created them, and I love them because God loves them" and then the sin is an afterthought. I think I would be more happy with saying "Love the person, hate the sin".